Black Americans, Freedom and Gratitude (UPDATED)

This was originally a Facebook note, but I think it needs to be said at as many places as I can say it. It is slightly edited from the original.

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Recently, I had a misunderstanding with a Facebook friend about a comment I left on her page.  My comment wasn't directed at her and the particulars of the misunderstanding aren't important, but I've seen the idea floating around for some years now--especially since it has become well known that there are a lot of black Americans who still hold a grudge against white Americans for slavery and Jim Crow and especially since a certain person became President of the United States--that black Americans ought to be grateful for those white Americans who died "for" our ancestors' freedom.

Let's get something straight.

I'm quite grateful to God for planting me in this country, in spite of the means of how it was done. It delivered me and mine from idolatry and Islam.  God makes all things work together for the good for those who love Him and are called to His purposes.

This country was founded on freedom for all and, it took some time, but America has lived up to its foundation.  I hate the fact that Americans had to walk in the wilderness to make that happen: to kill each other in a Civil War and to make some of its citizens live in quasi-citizenship for 100 years after that.  But it happened, nonetheless.

Here's the thing: did those who fought for the freedom of my ancestors 150 years ago and for the true citizenship of me, my parents and grandparents fifty years ago (my lifespan) do it to earn the gratitude of black Americans or did they do it for God and/or the honor of our country? One wonders if black Americans' freedom could have been accomplished without the bloodshed. Perhaps not, but black slaves certainly did not make white Americans kill each other over the bondage of the former.

If life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are gifts from the Creator granted to all human beings, then those who defend the same should not care about gratitude from other human beings. As far as this matter goes, any gratitude which the likes of me might offer only serves to engender pride in the recipient.  Pride is a sin; all types of pride.

True freedom fighters have the clean conscious of God. May that be enough for them.

UPDATE: From the comments:

I've lived a relatively long time and I've never known or heard of anyone who "demanded gratitude" for the sacrifices made to free the slaves in this country. Has anyone? That's a straw man...

Some people are quick to call you a liar when your experience doesn't match theirs. Humans...

 

Comments

[Merrily]

Demanding gratitude (or love or respect) indicates a condescending attitude. I saw the Facebook post and, once again, noted with admiration that you are able to make your point without doing so at another's expense. For that reminder, I AM grateful.

[baldilocks]

Aw, thanks. :)

[Another Old Navy Chief]

Amen!

Well said.

[SEer]

What an exquisite rationalization for not saying "thank you"... you're very welcome.

[SEer]

Similarly, there is never any reason to express gratitude to your parents, since whatever nice things they may have done they were just doing their job- that thing that's actually demanding gratitude is not the giver but rather your conscience.

[baldilocks]

Which is why I'm grateful to God for my freedom--and to no one else.

[baldilocks]

By the way, there are many people who wish they had different parents than the ones to whom they were born. I am not one of those, but your analogy falls down at that point. Try again.

[baldilocks]

My ancestors were slaves because of black Africans and because of white Americans. It turned out to be a blessing. I'm over it. Perhaps you should get over it too and take individuals in your present life as they are. That's what I try to do every day.

[SEer]

Should we then refuse to express gratitude to veterans on Veterans' Day, since they were only doing their jobs?
We agree on the second point; I should no more feel guilty (or be thought guilty) for the slaveholding of others than I should take (or be given) credit for the sacrifices of others to free the slaves.
I'm just sensitive about this meme because it was tried on me earlier this week already.

[baldilocks]

Expressing gratitude to my parents or to living veterans on V day is not the same as expressing gratitude to living white people for the actions of their dead ancestors--especially when their ancestors could have found a better way to solve the problem of their own making.

I'm glad you don't want any credit or blame for that. So what was your problem with this post again?

[SEer]

I've lived a relatively long time and I've never known or heard of anyone who "demanded gratitude" for the sacrifices made to free the slaves in this country. Has anyone? That's a straw man- and now we have this argument gaining traction in the community that there is NOONE to be grateful to-
Well lots of people sacrificed- ALOT- and that's why it's a blessing to be here instead of one of the many other places on the globe where noone has done so even at this late date-
I guess it comes from the same place that insists that there is no point to feeling or expressing gratitude to God since he's just doing whatever he wants anyway- it's not a pleasant or admirable aspect of human character.

[baldilocks]

Well, I've lived for a relatively long time as well, and I've seen it asked several times, the last of which occurred on Facebook, inspiring me to compose this post. And what "community" are you talking about?

How interesting that because you have never seen/heard something, you don't believe that it occurred.

This is really all about you, isn't it?

[Cobb]

From the perspective of nationhood there's no requirement to express gratitude to anyone. Gratitude is not in the national contract. You more or less understand the law, you more or less obey the law. That leaves a lot of space for blather in *society*. How individuals and groups navigate in society is far less deterministic. But some vague demand or play on sympathy and gratitude only appeals to certain folks, I imagine.

So Americans have choice on which part of society they wish to fit into. I really have no need for the gratitude or sympathy clans, as I tend towards more objective kinds of social forces.

It is my interpretation that the only white Americans who wanted to have anything to do with the social transformation of the discourse on race were the selfsame set of liberals who believed such things could be accomplished via the same forces as establish 'world peace', a sort of romantic sentiment comprised of good intentions and bourgeois political activism (as significantly distinct from violent revolution and respect via the deterrent quality of militant power). And while it suits our national myths to suggest that everyone participated in a like-minded fashion and the good guys won, sensible people should know better.

I like Baldilocks' approach. Nationalism and religious devotion are far more longstanding and passionate raisons d'etre in all social movements than the fleeting aspirations of those who believe they can change society or power associations within it even on their own behalf, much less on the behalf of strangers.

[ticklebee]

Many northerners thought that actually freeing the slaves was a good, but not necessary, goal of the civil war. They weren't necessarily fighting for the slaves. If I were the descendant of slaves, I'd thank God for the process that brought emancipation out of that mess. Thanks do belong to ardent abolitionists, but they're dead and no longer need them.