VA Hospital Dumping Patients?

From KABC-7 in Los Angeles:

The Los Angeles Police Department is investigating two more alleged cases of hospital patients being dumped on L.A.'s Skid Row. In one incident, police are checking surveillance video.

LA-area private healthcare facilities have an ugly reputation for dumping homeless patients--that is, those with no medical insurance--onto the streets of its downtown-Skid Row area.

Security guards at the Union Rescue Mission saw video just after midnight on Sunday: A man, barefoot, face bandaged, who had just been dropped off -- not by an ambulance or a health care provider, but by a United Independent taxicab. He told the guards that he was in severe pain and could barely walk, and had come from the Veterans Administration Hospital.

The reporter, Miriam Hernandez, also tells of another dumped patient--a mentally-ill man--who came from the civilian and privately-incorporated Western Medical Center in Anaheim. It's a looong way from Anaheim to downtown LA.

In an update, Hernandez states that

The one from the VA Hospital was returned to that hospital, but in the care of paramedics. The second man was cared for at the Union Rescue Mission for two days, then he walked off.

Now, I'm not one to say the VA hospitals dispenses pristinely perfect health care--far from it; it is socialized medicine--but something about the VA part of this story smells. Can't quite put my finger on it.

If the first man had actually belonged at the VA, why would he be dumped on purpose at Skid Row? It's not as though he had any huge bill to pay.

It would be interesting to discover to which LA area VA hospital the man was returned, the West LA facility (near Santa Monica) or the one in Long Beach--or whether he was actually returned to a VA facility at all.

(Thanks to Don Surber and to Glenn Reynolds)

UPDATE: :::two Instalanches in two days---->>>always link to Don Surber:::

Comments

[Bill Faith]

I'll repeat here what I said on Don's site when I first read about it there: I'm going to need a lot more proof than one TV station's say-so to be convinced the VA dumped a sick vet on the street. Until the Social Security Administration admits I really am too sick to work the VA is my only source of medical care and I'd be the last to deny the VA has some problems. On the other hand I have to figure the VA hospitals in LA are a lot like the one in Dallas, where it's impossible to walk from the parking lot to the main entrance without running into at least one phony vet looking for a handout. If KABC actually has proof that the "vet" in question really was a vet they shouldn't have any trouble finding a left wing congresscritter who'd be more than happy to demand an investigation of what happened. Until that happens I'm going with the assumption we're talking about another "I'm not a real vet, I just found the field jacket" phony.

[Ed Darrell]

I will require more and better evidence. What would be the motive for the VA to do patient dumping? If the guy is a veteran, his care is covered. So what would be the point?

[Becky]

Excellent analysis!!

But I still smell ..what is it, Cod, Salmon?

From the original article, it was reported, "“The man said he never wanted to come to Skid Row. He never asked to come to Union Rescue Mission, and as soon as he got a chance, he went back to the hospital,” said Andy Bales of the Union Rescue Mission."

The way that the original article is written, the reader is CLEARLY given the impression that it is the Bandaged Vet (who arrived in the taxi) who "went back to the hospital as soon as he got the chance". There is no WAY , none whatsoever, that Hernandez can now imply that she intended her readers to believe that this comment was not intended to be linked to the bandaged Vet who arrived in the taxi.

But that doesn't jive with Hernandez's update where she states, " The one from the VA Hospital was returned to that hospital, but in the care of paramedics. The second man was cared for at the Union Rescue Mission for two days, then he walked off."

So... is she saying that the Vet was returned to a VA by paramedics? That should be easy to fact check. But the comment, "as soon as he got the chance" doesn't seem to imply that paramedics were called!!

So did the bandaged vet return to the hospital "as soon as he got the chance", as Hernandez originally wrote, or were parmedics called? Because if paramedics were called, we can easily fact check if he was "returned" to the VA.

Her response seems to be purposely misleading. She says, "The one from the VA Hospital was returned to that hospital,"

THAT hospital?? That one? Which one?

Hernandez needs to clarify. She has slandered the VA hospital with a headline screaming that vets are being dumped on skid row. She needs to clarify her claim or get out of the business.

[Hank]

Baldilocks

My friend was in the VA hospital after being transferred from a private hospital. She wanted to go the VA but the fire department will only transfer you to the nearest hospital. The care she got at the VA was heads and shoulders above what the private hospital provided.

The VA spends relatively little on non-medical maintenance and the lobby and common areas look very government warehouse. The labs were state of the art, the wards were well staffed and the medical equipment was top notch. The private hospital was understaffed in the wards using the paper and pencil system the VA was automated with a very slick system. The private hospital did spend money on non-medical maintenance and the public areas looked sharp. The nursing staff in both places was very good the VA’s wasn’t playing catch up.

Associated with the VA hospital were a was large variety outpatient, group home, jobs for the disabled, and support systems for vets who did not need residential treatment but were not fully capable. I could see that one of these people could have gotten lost and been picked up on the streets.

[Becky]

Hank, you make several interesting points - but one in particular I find interesting.

Hernandez says, " The one from the VA Hospital was returned to that hospital, but in the care of paramedics."

You said, that your friend noted that the "the fire department will only transfer you to the nearest hospital.".

A quick yahoo search shows that the Rescue Mission is located at 545 S. San Pedro St., Los Angeles, CA 90013.

A quick yahoo search shows that the location of the VA hospital is located on Bonsalle Ave, 14 miles away. Yet the California Hospital Medical Ctr-La is only 1.8 miles away. Assuming I have the correct information then the VA is not the closest hospital (and since I'm not paid to fact check as is Hernandez, I put little energy into this - but apparently I did more than she).

It is entirely possible that the VA sent its own ambulance to pick up this mysterious bandaged vet. But wouldn't Hernandez be able to easily fact-check that to shore up her outrageous charge? It's not like another anonymous cabbie drove him back to "THAT" unnamed hospital as Hernandez notes in her correction. Rather she notes paramedics were called. Who told her that paramedics picked him up? And since the Rescue Mission was outraged enough over this incident to call the press, doesn't it seem likely that they would easily recall WHICH offending hospital he was "returned" to?

After such a slanderous attack on the VA shouldn't Hernandez have verified the name of "THAT" hospital. Or is she just too lame of a reporter to conduct such a basic fact-check to such an outrageous charge?

I also noticed, when doing a bit of searching - that these skid row stories seemed to have been picked up multiple times by the international news media - complete with quotes from Andy Bales, on the more serioius issue of patient dumping. They seem to be used to shore up Michael Moore's Sicko attack on our health care system in our pre-election cycle.

I suspect we will be getting many more of these exposes on every person ever wronged by our health care system in the run up to our next election.

Regardless, Hernandez needs to clarify what she meant by "THAT" hospital. It should be an easy fact for a true investigative reporter to track down - especially after such an outrageous claim.

[Becky]

And one last comment. (Sorry, can't let it go.)

OK - I've already made the point re: tortured wording if paramedics were called and "THAT" hospital" was a VA hospital.

But I have one last point to make. "The story leads with this line: "The Los Angeles Police Department is investigating TWO more alleged cases of hospital patients being dumped on L.A.'s Skid Row. In ONE incident, police are checking surveillance video."

They then roll tape on the patient who CLAIMS he was thrown out by the Veterans Administration. Yet, there is nothing provided in the reporting, other than the statement by the "Vet", to give any indication that his claim had any merit to it whatsoever.

Then they talk about the Western Patient - which appears to be a valid incident. No video on that case.

But then, towards the end of the tape, they roll another video tape and discuss another incident where a paraplegic was dropped off without a wheelchair.

That's THREE incidents - though only two are presented as "recent". They tell us that the police are investigating TWO incidents and reviewing video on ONE - but they ran TWO videos in the piece.

My question is this: Are the two "recent" incidents reported on by Hernandez the TWO incidents that are being investigated by the police??

I know I sound petty and conspiratorial but the wording on this is so careful and so tortured - that I can't help but to be suspicious.

Because it makes a big difference what the police are doing with the information they were given about the incident with the "vet". Did they determine that he was returned to a VA hospital by paramedics? Are they still investigating it? What came of it?

The claim that the VA was dumping patients on skid row is highly outrageous and it is difficult to imagine the network letting it go if indeed the patient was from the VA. There is no official confirmation that this Vet ever came from or was returned to the VA - we just have to take Andy Bales comment of the "vets" claim as fact. But in fact, it is all very ambiguous as this piece jumps around - using words like "allegedly" and vague comments such as, "In fact, even the hospitals allegedly involved have not been officially notified of the complaints."

Why didn't they tell us WHICH hospitals had not been officially notified?

Andy says that the "vet" was returned to THE hospital as soon as he got the chance." Not THAT hospital, as Hernandez cryptically says in her update. It is all very tortured.

It doesn't seem too much to ask, after such an outrageous claim by the network, if the Vet was returned to a VA hospital - and if so, which one. It is certainly far from clear and I suspect that if in fact he had been returned to a Veterans Hospital - the follow-up to this story would have been national front page news.

And so far, it is not.