Rebel Yell

There's a movement in Vermont whose mission is to get that state to secede from the US.

About 300 people turned out for a 2005 secession convention in the Statehouse, and plans for a second one are in the works. A poll this year by the University of Vermont's Center for Rural Studies found that 13 percent of those surveyed support secession, up from 8 percent a year before.

"The argument for secession is that the U.S. has become an empire that is essentially ungovernable -- it's too big, it's too corrupt and it no longer serves the needs of its citizens," said Rob Williams, editor of Vermont Commons, a quarterly newspaper dedicated to secession.

"Congress and the executive branch are being run by the multinationals. We have electoral fraud, rampant corporate corruption, a culture of militarism and war. If you care about democracy and self-governance and any kind of representative system, the only constitutional way to preserve what's left of the Republic is to peaceably take apart the empire."

According to the article, such movements in the modern era are nothing new and far more symbolic than was the secession of the states which briefly became the Confederate States of America:

Key West, Fla., staged a mock secession from America in the 1980s. The Town of Killington, Vt., tried to break away and join New Hampshire in 2004, and Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Texas all have some form of secession organizations today.

Here my question: if Vermont becomes the People's Republic of Vermont and the newly illegal immigrants begin streaming over the New Hampshire, Massachusetts and New York borders, will they be eligible for amnesty Z-visas?

(Thanks to Lucianne)

Comments

[Tully]

Little problem there. States aren't allowed to secede without the approval of the Union. There is no Constitutional right of secession. Settled law, Texas v. White.

Secession without the approval of the Union is insurrection and rebellion. Unless Vermont has some massive military we haven't heard about....

[ErikZ]

Well *whew* then! I mean, if it's against the law, it just can't happen, right?

Just curious, what exactly will the Federal government do? Send in the troops? Suspend the state government?

They've already shown themselves unwilling to exercise any power that can be seen in a negative light. Unless those in power suddenly show an unprecedented amount of backbone, they'll do nothing of consequence.

[Tully]

Just curious, what exactly will the Federal government do? Send in the troops?

In the only prior instance of secession, that's exactly what they did. It was called the "Civil War." It's in all the history books and everything.

As Texas v. White noted, a state government can purposely delegitimize itself, but that doesn't mean the state itself has left the Union. The residents are still Americans, and the state itself is still part of the Union. The state government is declared in rebellion, and is treated as such.

But I suspect the secession movement would lose any widespread support when the feds suspended ALL federal payments and benefits to the state and its residents, for as long as the state remained in a state of rebellion. No Social Security checks, no Medicare/Medicaid benefits, no highway funding, no federal funds of any kind.

[Tully]

And the Vermonters would have to REALLY have the whole-hearted cooperation of Canada. Or do without any imports at all, and no external trade. How long until the gasoline and heating oil is gone? The food?

[ErikZ]

The Federal government hasn't shown the will to eject illegal aliens from the country. There is no way, no way in the world that they'll have what it takes to put down a state that wants to leave the union.

Hell, convince them that they'll make more from taxing goods and services coming across the border and they'll probably help out.

Yes, I know about the Civil war. We're not the same country as we were back then.

Would you(or anyone) be willing to go to Vermont as part of the Army to force them to stay in the Union? Would anyone care at all?

[Tully]

Don't need to go in in force. Just seal the Vermont border, cut off the money flow from the federal government, and enforce it. Much much smaller than the Mexican border. Canada would cooperate readily--Canadian trade with the US is hundreds of times that of Canadian trade with Vermont. No in, no out, not enough resources to keep going.

As I said, I don't think the people of Vermont would be so wild about secession in the first place, if it meant forgoing all the moneys from the federal government, and trade with anyone.

I think you seriously underestimate the principle of Union. The federal government can not afford to grant secession to any one state, no matter how small, for to do so would be to allow it to all states. And that isn't going to happen. They'd make an example, as they have before. They might not make it with a military assault at first (the might of the state is many more things than armed violence) but make it they most assuredly would.

[Phelps]

Two years ago, I would have said that there would be no way a state would be allowed to secede, and would have cited the War Between the States.

Now, given the current state of affairs, I don't believe that the Union has the will to preserve itself. I think that a secession would go unanswered at this point.