Tookie Blogging

The latest buzz on the death penalty is in regard to Stanley “Tookie” Williams--the founder of the notorious Crips terror street gang of Los Angeles--who is scheduled to be executed by lethal injection on December 13th for the 1979 murders of four people.

Like Mumia Abu Jamal, Stanley Williams has many a “star” in his corner pushing for the commutation of his impending execution, switching it to life in prison without parole. Former Crip Calvin Broadus, better known to the world as rapper Snoop Dogg, is most especially in favor of keeping Mr. Williams alive because,

"Stanley 'Tookie' Williams is not just a regular old guy, he's an inspirator [sic]. He inspires me, and I know I inspire millions."

Oscar-winning actor Jamie Foxx, who portrayed Williams in a movie about the latter’s life--Redemption--says that the only birthday present he wants from California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is “clemency for Stan Tookie Williams.” Mr. Foxx’s birthday is December 13th.

What is it about cold-blooded murderers that brings out the sympathies of celebrities? Is it the murder of senior citizens and women? Perhaps it’s the heroism of shooting other men in the back that gets those Hollywood injustice motors running.

Such people as Mr. Dogg and Mr. Foxx would argue that Stanley Williams is a changed man from the one who vowed to get back at the jury members who convicted him and who decided on his sentence. The writer of children’s books warning against gang activity and the nominee for the increasingly discredited Nobel Prize has never admitted guilt for his crimes, nor has he apologized to the families of the murdered or to the community which he terrorized. But those who style themselves as his advocates want him to escape the consequences of his actions.

I suppose that such people as Mr. Foxx and Mr. Dogg would argue that, implicit in the word 'redemption’ is the allowance to completely escape from earthly penalties. But even Jesus—said to be sinless and certainly no murderer--didn’t escape those, nor did the men next to him.

One of the odder things about Mr. Williams' position and those who support clemency for him, notes National Review Online columnist Jack Dunphy, is that Mr. Williams claims that he is innocent of all the charges. If that is the truth, then why does he need redemption? If Misters Foxx and Dogg really believe everything that Mr. Williams says about his case, let them be brave enough to ask Arnold to pardon the “innocent man.”

But the entertainers won’t do that because they know just how far they can go with this anti-death penalty advocacy or with any possible racial solidarity that they might claim to have with with Mr. Williams.

Why else are they speaking out for someone as heinous as Mr. Williams? Because that's how most of our "betters" do things: without any regard to the consequences of their actions. Such gestures and posturing look good to the undiscerning.

Additionally, Misters Foxx and Dogg no longer have to live in the 'hood; where Tookie's spiritual spawn continue to wage war on their own communities. Now that's a true escape.

More Tookie blogging:

Flap has many, many links on the fight to save the redeemed man who's really innocent. Arnold is considering the clemency.

XYBORG:

Williams was once a heartless shotgun-bearing thug who personally carried out some of the Black-on-Black butchery that Snoop [Dogg] glorifies in his loathsome gangsta rap recordings and continues to be admired by many in the very community he once terrorised. [SNIP]

Many of the artists who have leapt aboard the USS Save Tookie are, in fact, cynically using his case to shore up their sagging “street” credentials by demonstrating to their gangsta-loving fans that they are still “down for the cause”. And since they all derive their “standing” in the ‘hood from their sickening glorification of the very exploits that landed Big Tookie on Death Row they can’t seriously be held to genuinely care for the life of this Black man when they devote all of their artistic energies to rhyming about “smoking”, “dropping” or “taking out” other Black men with this or that assault weapon.

Booker Rising also links to many opinions—of varying quality--both for and against the execution.

Best line read: in regard to the fact that Mr. Williams has written books for children, a suggestion as title for his final opus:

“Tookie Takes a Dirt Nap”

(Edited for clarity and sundry on November 28, 2005 at 11:00 PM PST)

More here and here.

Comments

[T-Steel]

Snoop Dogg a gangsta rapper?!?! HAHA! He's a pimp rapper (he thinks) and no more. Pimpin' ladies and bragging about is his forte now.

I just talked to Solomon about this issue Baldilocks and I think I persuaded him to right about this issue on my blog. Should be interesting.

[Tony]

I am anti death penalty, and it shames me to admit that part of it is because it's a too easy way to go.

I had my dog euthanized and it was a really peaceful humane way to go. I'd prefer Williams live his life in prison until he's room temperature.

[playah grrl]

juliette, do you watch Boondocks? I guess I'm not supposed to, bein' a conservative cauc 'n' all,but I really love it, it is fierce and subtle and disrespectful and funnie. Boondocks makes fun of both sides.
Last night was the "Niggah Moment" episode. Huey says, these are the three most commen causes of death in black men.
1) F.E.M.A.
2) Porkchops
3) Niggah Moments
I think little rage-filled Huey might argue that Tookie should spend his life in prison as an example of a niggah moment.

[Nancy Reyes]

I am against the death penalty as long as there is a safe alternative. In the past, you couldn't keep prisoners in jail forever, so you killed not only murderers but dangerous thieves. Exile was an alternative back then (I'm talking about 100 or 1000 years ago).
so keep him in jail until he hits 70...

[V the K]

If you choose to take another human being's life (outside of self-defense, accident, or war), it seems to me fair that you forfeit your own.

[StinKerr]

I really wonder at the folks who would nominate this guy for a Nobel Peace prize. Is there any way to find out who nominated him?

My guess is that it's a device of the anti-death penalty folks.

Williams put himself where he is by his own choices, let him reap what he has sown.

[Albertanator]

I am completely for the death penalty and I cannot imagine how people could ever be against it..

That being said, this murderous punk needs to be eliminated for good on Dec. 13.........and hopefully and prayerfully he will make his peace with the Living God!! Not the current allah that he has turned too....

[Emily]

Wow. What a stupid person to busy themselves advocating for. There is so much injustice in this world, and THIS is the person they chose to root for?

[Gayle]

Push the plunger and let God sort it out!

[Greg Burgas]

Williams seems like a scumbag, so I have no sympathy for him, but I am anti-death penalty for some of the same reasons others do - it's too easy. I do like people who want to execute him but call themselves Christians - Jesus would forgive him, I reckon, and would tell us to forgive him. Just a small point.

[GUYK]

I am generally against the death penalty but not because of the morality of it. I just do not see it as punishment but more of an easy way out for the murderer. A better punishment in my mind is life at hard labor on minimum subsistance and isolation from the outside world. This is a man who thought that he was too good to work for a living and now he should be given a chocie to work or starve. Now, this kind of punishment might serve as a deterrent. Capital punishment does not seem to do so for the gangbanger because they have no respect for life including their own. But it does appear that all of them are afraid of work.

[Silicon Valley Jim]

I really wonder at the folks who would nominate this guy for a Nobel Peace prize.

Well, it's in line with history. Yassir Arafat won it in 1994. Mussolini and Stalin were also nominated, as was Hitler, although the man who nominated him withdrew the nomination before the date for the prize award.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nobel_Prize_controversies

[Walter E. Wallis]

People who consider capitol punishment the easy way out should look at the Richard Speck video about how good he had it in jail.
The judges have eliminated any form of duress for prisoners so they have 3 squares and a bed, no rent, free medical care and the right to kill anyone they dislike with no real penalty. Lots of pensioners would like that.

[dick]

I do wish they would do the same thing to Mumia. The man flat out killed a NJ State Cop and now we hear all these people talking as if he were St Mumia. The man is just as much of a scumbag as Tookie is and both should be executed ASAP.

[Mike Z]

If he's really reformed, why hasn't he dropped his gang name (Tookie)?

And why did rapper WhatsIsFace sign off his greeting with "O G" - the sign for "Original Gangster"?

[Moogie]

I've always been somewhat on the fence with the death penalty Ms B. On the one hand there is all the nonsense about an eye for an eye. But on the other, wouldn't killing them be the easy way out? No suffering, living in confinement, constantly under observation, no freedom, men looking at you as if you are, how shall we say, eye candy?

I'm sure if there were something that happened to my family I would be the first to pull the switch.

As for celebrities getting involved? I don't waste my time with them. It should be obvious why.

[Warthog]

There has been very little mention of the victims of this murderer, by the m.s.m. or the ignorant celebrities. Also doesn't being a "crip" mean you went out and crippled people? No mention of the activities of those thugs. And I remember a white supremest being held responsible when some skinheads killed a black man in another city. Why can't this murderer be held responsible for "crip" gang killings? It wouldn't surprise me if Arnold gives in and stays the exucution. He's been infected by hollywood and the kennedy's.

[Albertanator]

To Greg Burgas...

Never confuse forgiveness with consquences!!!

There is a difference....note that the thieves on the cross never disputed their penalty as unjust .........but at the same time, one of them gained forgiveness for his actions that led him there...

Their is NOTHING wrong with advocating the Death Penalty for murderers from a Christian POV!!

And yes, I would be happy to pull the switch on this bastard!!

[shari]

yes it was a swedish politician who nominated "tookie" he said he wanted to raise the issue of the death penalty in america. i think wiki had a link about it but their page is pro the murderer so they probably took it off. also go to the ken and jon show and they have the author of the books on and she hangs up on them. i am black and i say killl him. i think death penalty is wr ong and it isnt a deterrent but i am sick of hollyhwood trying to run america.

[StinKerr]

It looks like the article is still on Wikipedia.

I'm also not surprised to see one of the usual suspects stick an oar into this.

[Carol]

Beth at http://merry-merry-christmas.blogspot.com has a post about this. She points out that what kids will learn from Tookie is that if you're clever enough you can murder people and escape consequences and become a celebrity by getting Hollywood types and others seeking attention to take up your case.

[B]

I find the terms interesting by which Tookie speaks of his so-called "redemption". For him to admit to the murders I suppose is too much to ask. Afterall, that would seal his execution. I wonder if he EVER executed anyone...hmm. ...and if so, does his redemption include all of his acts, or just the ones placing him in jail....hmmmm. That's some new math right there:

Redemption = freedom from the punishment for living a LIFESTYLE of thuggery.

If Tookie is "redeemed" as he puts it, let him man up and taste death from the same spoon he used to feed it to others.

[Kalkin]

A couple of factual comments:

When Williams claims he's redeemed, he's talking about from the gang life; he's rejected the Crips, etc. It's perfectly consistent with claiming to be innocent of the 4 murders.

'Tookie' is in fact his legal middle name. It's not his nickname - though media reports sometimes erroneously put it in quotes - and it's not his 'gang name.'

It seems like a little more attention to detail is called for when trying to get a man condemned to death...

[sharon ferguson]

I hate that people who are anti-death penalty work from an assumption that the punishment of death is a) arbitrary and b) an "out of the blue" decision. Its not as if scum like Tookie didnt know that if they went around pillaging people's lives and killing them in pre-meditated methods, there WASNT going to be a group of people who would turn to the Laws on the books and say "you know what? He who kills WILL be killed." Tookie has the fortune of getting a trial and a judgement voted upon by his legal peers (and dont you dare say that their skin color had anything to do with their ability to reason!) and he recieved his version of justice. They can parse the evidence all they want. There is nothing that will change their minds.

Celebrities piss me off because they think the dollars pouring into their bank accounts are actual Ballots giving them the power to change our laws without the benefit of going through an election. The governor of California ran the gauntlet and won. HIS decision to commute the sentence is legitimate. His decision NOT to commute the sentence is legitimate. A bunch of uneducated bully-pulpit ACK!tors with egos to wank are NOT legitimate policy makers. I wish someone would tell them to keep their money-stomping efforts to charities and not political lobbies.

[Ernie G]

While all the Tookie-fanciers are lighting their candles, they should also light four candles for:

Albert Owens,
Thsai-Shai Yang,
Yen-I Yang, and
Yee Chen Lin.

Who are these people, you ask. They died on the dirty floor of a convenience store, and a hotel, of shotgun blasts. They had no due process, no chance to file appeals, or to write childrens’ books, or to be nominated for a Nobel Prize. No celebrities held vigils for them. Bam! And it was over.

[Jones]

Right on Sharon. Anyone who feels sorry for scumbag stan should try to remember the innocent people he sadistically murdered for nothing.

[Tully]

If Tookie won't admit to his guilt (which was copiously demonstrated) then he deserves absolutely nothing but the sentence he justly received from the due process of law. No confession, no absolution. It's a simple principle that transcends its religous underpinnings.

[Guera]

Tookie is innocent. he aint no rata. someone else did! if you pinche putos lived in or around gangs all your life you would know that you NEVER EVER snitch! EVER! i live on tha South Side of Tucson Arizona and if you're a snitch yo ass get's blasted ese. shit tha witness who testified against Tookie is in jail in Canada for murder! now that should tell you guyz something! damn! yall just wanna bring all tha chicanos, blacz, and orientalz down don't ya! SAVE TOOKIE!

[teal marie]

Was that the Tookie Monster?

[baldilocks]

Hope you're joking Mr. Guera.

Just in case you didn't know, I live in South (Central) LA, my hometown.

[higgs]

I hear all this racial talk and it makes me sick. People are forgeting this man killed four people in cold blood. I may not know about gangs or areas where they exist, but I do know murder is wrong. Regaurdless of "Tookies" background or race, he is a murderer and should face his punishment. If he wasn't facing death would he have changed? Now that's a question.

[O/G D.O.G.]

[nope]

[O/G D.O.G.]

[nope]

[CALVIN HOLLMAN]

[baldilocks says: Bugger off, Calvin]

[teal marie]

Now that's some of the worst kind of capital punishment.

It's so emphatic you don't even need punctuation.

Criptic.

[US Troop]

I keep hearing all of you saying that Mr. Tookie killed these people like you saw him do it. All you people know is what the media tells you. And i bet all of you claim to be christians... One Nation under God huh? Yeah, whatever!!! God said not to "REPAY EVIL FOR EVIL, FOR VENGENCE IS MINE"... I guess you all forgot about that... Also, how do you know that Mr. Tookie isn't reformed? All you hipocrits can do is look at peoples past... Look at your own past, because i'm pretty sure a lot of you all have more than a few sceletons in your closets... And so what if a rapper called Mr. Tookie an OG... If you all knew anything you would know that the term "OG", is used for an older person who used to be in a gang. Kind of like you call an older person who used to be in the Military a veteran... I have also read about people saying that he isn't reformed because he still hangs around some of his crip friends in jail... And...So what.. When Jesus walked the earth, even he hung around prostitutes and murderers... Does that mean that Jesus wasn't then and isn't now our Savior? If you are trying to make a difference and trying to turn someone else away from Sin, you first have to be around someone that sins Genuises!! What good is it to hang around good and perfect people like all you fine christian folks...lol... To catch fish, you have to go to the water... One of you also said that if he is reformed, then why doesn't he change his name from Tookie? Wow? You people are really digging aren't you? Any little thing you can find huh? LOL.. But, you know that's the "World" for you... If any of you were truly saved, and truly knew our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, you wouldn't be on here making these comments about killing a man made in God's own image... You all do know that we are made in the image of God right?? But, from some of the things i read, i doubt very seriously that this is about you all's care and concern about the victims!!! Lastly, if Mr. Tookie did kill those people. Because, no matter how much you people run your mouths, and give your little opinions no one knows whether or not he did it. Death is not to be decided by man... No one on this site is free from sin... "Whoever is free from sin then Cast the first stone"...

[spunky]

reply to post by US Troop:

Amen!

[baldilocks]

The only thing that you're saying 'Amen' to, spunky, is to US Troop's illogic, his inability to form a coherent idea, his straw man tactic of arguing, his willingness to find any type of excuse for a convicted murderer, his poor reading of the Bible (US Troop 'sees, but he doesn't perceive'), his inability or unwillingness to read clearly and his poor spelling skills.

No one here said that anyone was 'free of sin,’ US Troop. As a matter of fact that none of us are such has absolutely nothing to do with this post. Those who accept Jesus as Savior will go to Heaven. Heaven, however, is not the subject here, but Earth is--specifically Mr. Williams' earthly actions and the earthly consequences of those actions. Whether he gets executed or not has no bearing on whether he goes to Heaven or not.

Also, we're aren't compelled to do everything that Jesus does, unless you plan on sacrificing yourself for the sins of the world.

Try again.

[US Troop]

LoL... You say "His Earthly Actions"; like i said, you don't even know that he did it!!! You also say my "Poor Reading of the Bible". I have a very good understanding of the bible, it's obvious that you don't. And of course we can't sacrifice ourselves for the sins of the world man, only Jesus was able to do that because of his perfect blood. And by no means was i trying to justify him killing someone if he did it, or him starting a gang. My whole point really was how this country and the people in it claim to be "Under God", and you all make comments like "We Should Kill Him", and "An Eye For an Eye"... So you can spend all day long trying to point out little petty things like whether or not i spell a word right(lol@U), or whether i explain something in a way that you think i should explain it... I'm laughing at you really, because when people have to resort to pointing out things like mispelled words after a comment like what i gave, all that tells me is that i touched a nerve!!!
God bless You Balldilocks or whatever your name is, and the rest of the people!!!! :)

[US Troop]

LoL... You say "His Earthly Actions"; like i said, you don't even know that he did it!!! You also say my "Poor Reading of the Bible". I have a very good understanding of the bible, it's obvious that you don't. And of course we can't sacrifice ourselves for the sins of the world man, only Jesus was able to do that because of his perfect blood. And by no means was i trying to justify him killing someone if he did it, or him starting a gang. My whole point really was how this country and the people in it claim to be "Under God", and you all make comments like "We Should Kill Him", and "An Eye For an Eye"... So you can spend all day long trying to point out little petty things like whether or not i spell a word right(lol@U), or whether i explain something in a way that you think i should explain it... I'm laughing at you really, because when people have to resort to pointing out things like mispelled words after a comment like what i gave, all that tells me is that i touched a nerve!!!
God bless You Balldilocks or whatever your name is, and the rest of the people!!!! :)

[sknzrebel]

its funny to me to watch this guy beg for his pathetic life,and about as funny as watching these washed up celebs trying to gain notoriety for it.what bplanet are these people on wake up and get a real job while your at it,if you support him and his bullshit books then toss his salad!!!!

[me]

We were not put here on this earth to take God's role in judging the fate of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Though, you may or may not believe that God exists or that he is our savior he still loves every single one of his children, including our brother in Christ Mr. Stanley Tookie Williams. Jesus became man not to bring a message of vengence or hate but to bring a message of love and mercy. We must all look within ourselves and recognize our own wrong doings, we may not have gone as far as physically killing another human being, but perhaps done other equally hurtful things to others or to God. God uses all of us as instruments and now He is using this man as an instrument, an example, of his love and compassion. If He was able to touch the heart of a cold blooded murderer and make him into an example of peace and purpose to our nations youth, then let us not interfere with the work of God. If God gave him life again let us not go against his will and take it away from him.

[RL]

Anybody wonder about how the Crips might react to Tookie's execution? I think it may spark more murders.

[very important blog]

You know what. Some of you sound just like a bunch of winny little old ladies who gets scared when the light is out. Some of you would believe anything someone tells you without ever doing the math yourself to find out if something is true or not. I dont know if Tookie killed those people or not but there's lot of evidence convincing me that he didnt and that he was framed "once again by LAPD and the DA". If I was spineless like the dude to who said that Tookie did it just to get off, hell yeah I would say he did it. But i'm not and never had a situation where I had to snitch or frame my boy to get off. So to all you ignorant POSTERS to this blog, get you facts straight. And for the white cat reading this blog unless you are hip to our so call judicial system, I bet you believe he did it because it is in your blood to believe anything and not question it. And besides that. If you are convince that he didnt do it you would still say he did when you are in the presence of your white friends. To Tookie, I never met you but know who you are. Keep you head up brother.

[mohades]

I agree with RL, in case u don't know once a Crip, always a Crip! The only true way out is death and they not gonna take too kindly to one of their generals falling. Someone will pay!

[baldilocks]

VIB:

I'll just chalk you up as another one who would hold black people back by denying or excusing their bad behavior. A klansman is more honest.

[Rebekka]

I'm a white female who grew up a block from the compton projects and so central. I've seen what happen when a murder goes down and no one talks. A life is ruined and out of fear of more violence you keep your mouth closed-right or wrong.
Tookie murdered those people for the wrong-he killed them because he had a gun, and because he could. He not only took the lives of those he shot in cold blood, but he took the lives of the family members still living forced to grieve.
Tookie was convicted in a court of law, by a jury of his american represenatives. Somehow I don't think his peers-the crips-were lining up for jury duty.
We don't need to be present at the crime to read the facts. They speak volums for the victims.
Tookie admited to anyone that would listen to his tales of rigiousness that he killed the whitie and he killed the buddaheads-were his words not slanderous and racist?
Tookie should pay the price for him crimes with his life.
An eye for an eye.

[gopher]

""I agree with RL, in case u don't know once a Crip, always a Crip! The only true way out is death and they not gonna take too kindly to one of their generals falling. Someone will pay!""
**********************************
Anybody wonder about how the Crips might react to Tookie's execution? I think it may spark
more murders.
***********************************,If ya dont do what we want we Kill ya ,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I think that's what They said ?

[Dee Lyons Torrez]

The sentence imposed by a jury of Mr. William's peers should be carried out. Who really knows the nature of his heart? Changed or not it does not resurrect the people that were murdered. I agree with another posting.....let God sort it out.

[Amber]

The blood of thousands upon thousands of human lives; every race, creed, and color is on the hands of Mr. Williams, being those directly and indirectly killed by gang violence as a result of his personal greed and need for power and the empire built by those bloody hands, namely the ‘Crips’. Whether he did or did not pull the trigger that snuffed out the lives of four innocent human beings, he is still responsible. If he had even attempted to make amends to the families of the four victims, if even to say ‘I am sorry that as a direct result of the Crips, the gang I founded, your family members are dead’, I would have more respect for him. Even in his “Apology” letter, he identifies himself as the ‘Surviving Crips Co-Founder’ as with a smug sense of pride.

I wonder if all the African-Americans out there who strongly support Tookie Williams based simply on the fact that he now renounces gang violence and co-authors children’s books as a form of personal redemption, would do the same for professed Racist Skin-Head John Edward Butler who brutally murdered Dan Shersty and Lin “Spit” Newborn simply for the fact that one was black and one was white and they were friends, when he writes his redemption books:

Skinheads and Drugs
Skinheads and the Abuse of Power
Skinheads and Self-Esteem
Skinheads and Your Neighborhood

I wonder if they’ll be supporting Butler’s appeals of innocence and protesting his walk down death row.

[Amber]

The blood of thousands upon thousands of human lives; every race, creed, and color is on the hands of Mr. Williams, being those directly and indirectly killed by gang violence as a result of his personal greed and need for power and the empire built by those bloody hands, namely the ‘Crips’. Whether he did or did not pull the trigger that snuffed out the lives of four innocent human beings, he is still responsible. If he had even attempted to make amends to the families of the four victims, if even to say ‘I am sorry that as a direct result of the Crips, the gang I founded, your family members are dead’, I would have more respect for him. Even in his “Apology” letter, he identifies himself as the ‘Surviving Crips Co-Founder’ as with a smug sense of pride.

I wonder if all the African-Americans out there who strongly support Tookie Williams based simply on the fact that he now renounces gang violence and co-authors children’s books as a form of personal redemption, would do the same for professed Racist Skin-Head John Edward Butler who brutally murdered Dan Shersty and Lin “Spit” Newborn simply for the fact that one was black and one was white and they were friends, when he writes his redemption books:

Skinheads and Drugs
Skinheads and the Abuse of Power
Skinheads and Self-Esteem
Skinheads and Your Neighborhood

I wonder if they’ll be supporting Butler’s appeals of innocence and protesting his walk down death row.

[lee]

He needs to go. Why should he be able to have life in prison getting fatter? He killed quite a few humans and never accepted responsibility for the four he got caught and prosecuted over. It seems as though he is very self serving (I'm good now please do not kill me). In prison it would definitely be to his benefit to become neutral to try and escape his own murder by his peers in the prison. How about the victim's families, their presence is not nearly as known as all the Hollywood celebrities, (who I will no longer support). If he gets clemency it will open the door for all the other inmates who did not do it either. The only thing he has apoligized for was starting the Crips. I'm sure that makes the people he shot and their families feel better. I agree let God sort it out Celebrities don't mean a thing to him. One last question where does all the money from his books and things go?

[torchy]

The correct translation of the Hebrew in the Bible says "Thou shalt not murder", or kill with malice aforethought. We can kill and do kill lots of Gods creations to just survive, it's not done in malice (this aint Eden anymore). I don't view the killing of Tookie as repaying evil for evil. He recieved a judgement from a jury of his peers in an impartial court. There's no malice in that and it rids society of an unacceptable hazard to its health. It's a quite a rational process.
I read that his actual middle name is Tookie but was it also his gang name? If he was redeemed he'd lose that middle name or replace it with a 'T' name like Thomas, if anything.

[brad keller]

the sooner the better, tookie going down

[jeremy]

how come you all seem to be picking on tookie. about his impending execution when no one that has posted anything on this page was not in the court room when his trial took place you didn't here the evidence. so dont comment about it. As for his impending execution I hope Gov. Arnold gives him clemency because even if tookie did those murders. I believe and so do thousands around the world believe that stanley "tookie" williams has done more good then bad. It is possible that he commited those murders and killed four people. But he has saved thousands check that millions from making those same mistakes that he made and probable has saved many lives in the process. Oh and another thing people talking about killing tookie because he may be a murderer. How about we kill the actual murderers like charles manson and stop protecting him behind laws. Oh yeah he's white.

from a 19 year old white william and mary student

[baldilocks]

The Kool Aid tastes good. Ain't that right, jeremy?

[baldilocks]

BTW, jeremy, do your homework on Manson. When the death penalty was abolished in California (temporarily, obviously) in 1972 and all of the death sentences of that time in this state were commuted to life in prison, Manson's was one of them. When the DP was reinstated, those who got clemency from the old law retained it.

No doubt, a number of equally psychopathic black murderers got that little gift along with Manson.

Grow up, read something antidotally useful while you're drinking the William and Mary Kool Aid, and stop making excuses for psychopaths who happen to be black.

[slomo]

I never imagined Crips membership would one day spread throughout California, would spread to much of the rest of the nation and to cities in South Africa, where Crips copycat gangs have formed.

This was off the "apology" on his website...sounds like he received the academy award or something...like he is bragging about the scope of this "gang".

[slomo]

kinda like swartkoff (or however you spell it) says...
It's up to God to forgive or not...it's up to us to arrange the meeting.

[unkown]

Let’s be realistic. I am a probation officer. From the postings I gather several of you will know what I do. This man was convicted of four murders. I am not a fan of the death penalty but, put it like this if he is granted life in prison and later abscond to come and kill or rape your family I think you would fill very stupid about your words. Let justice prevail.

[Disasterpiece]

Ok, on the manson comment. Charles Manson was not present at the murders according to him and his followers testimony. He was sentenced to death for his role in giving his followers the order to kill. Tookies BOYS testified against him in the murders of 4 people. They testified that Tookie mocked the gurgling sounds that one of his victims that he had just shot in the head was making as they lay dying. And now because hes supposedly reformed and denouncing the gangs, and writing childrens books he should be spared. Saddam Hussein has written a few books while incarcerated and staring the death penalty in the face, should the world give him another chance? What if he writes a few childrens books telling them that gassing thousands, torture, and genocide is counterproductive? Do we let him go? I just wonder how many of hollywoods liberal chimps would jump on that bandwagon. So here we are, Charlie gave the orders the same as Saddam. Do you honestly believe that Tookie (FOUNDER/CO FOUNDER) Of one of the most murderous gangs in our nations history never killed or gave an order to kill? Osama Bin Laden wasnt aboard any of those planes either.

[Frank Stephens]

time for tookie to fess up and stop blaming "the man" for his crimes

[Devin Moon]

When Stanley Williams said redemption, he didn't mean in the literal sense, but he meant redemption for himself, for the upheavement of the cripts. He has clearly redeemed himself and if the govenor Arnold whats his name decides to kill him the California population as a whole will have a lot of angry gangs on their hands.

[baldilocks]

"Upheavement?" What the heck is that?

Terrorist-gang members are always upset. Nothing new there. They get upset when the sun doesn't shine on cue.

If these terrorists try to riot near my house, they may get more than they bargained for.

[Amber]

The California population as a whole has had a lot of angry gangs on their hands for close to 40 years. Why the California population has tolerated the empire of cold blooded murderers that breed in the alleys and crack houses of L.A., for this long is an incomprehensible wonder. Why America as a whole has tolerated this form of Urban Terrorism is a wonder, and especially those African Americans who have lost countless numbers of their very own due to the deadly consequences of gang violence. Tookie Williams sealed his fate 35 years ago when he bred his band of slaughter hungry, blood thirsty "urban terrorists", namely the "Crips". It's not what he has done since entering prison that enrages the majority, it's what he hasn't done, which makes what he's done null and void; meaningless. He wrote books in an attempt to save his spineless ass, and he has never fully and completely denounced his affiliation with the Crips. His own "boys" are the ones who fried him, and he knows if had really redeemed himself he would have been dead a long time ago, even sitting on death row. Even so, it would have been a more honorable and "redemptive" way to go. Governor Schwarzenegger is doing his job, plain and simple; he is trying to protect the people of California. I hope his example resonates and other Politicians, Governors, and Law Enforcement Officials will follow suit. The only people that will act out in violence will be the gang related descendents of this modern day African American Hitler, and I hope law enforcement deals with them the way they should have been dealing them all along. Tookie Williams is a disgrace to his people, Americans overall, and humanity in general.

[snowwhite]

it's no surpise that the bastard childern of neo-con terro nazi war criminal infiltrator such as (arnold Schwarzenegger) who's father killed millions in w.w.2 would murder mr. willams only proves that world war 2 is not over..

and only proves that the neo con will never except peace...and for that there will be all out war of revenge on all nazis in america for there ignorance..

a very big mistake on there part.
Tookie Williams will be revenged know it! oh bastard childern of thy nazi war criminals.

if it's all war you want to continue then it's counter allout war to the death you will get!

there will no peace in america now! god will punish you hard
for this -can you say nucular war!
oh bastard child of thy neo terro right wing scum.

[baldilocks]

Whatever, Snow-snorter.

[waste of time]

Are you kidding me? This has become an issue because some monster named tookie, kills 4 people at point blank range. One family asleep in their beds and for $100.00 slaughters them. A young man working at a 7-11, he takes into the back and shoots him twice as he's lying on the floor.

12 jurors sentence the monster to death. Can some one tell me how any of this is Arnold Schwarzenegger’s fathers fault? This has nothing to do with race, ethnicity or creed; it has to do with a monster.

If you really want to place the blame, put it where it belongs, TOOKIE YOU DID THIS TO YOUR SELF, YOU KNEW PCP WAS/IS ILLEGAL, and YOU KNEW KILLING WAS/IS ILLEGAL. You get what you deserve; you must die.

[Live By The Sword]

This gangbanger epitomizes a lot of whats wrong with America.
He guns down 4 innocent people in cold blood for 200.00 and blames his conviction on the race card like all the other unemployed lazy losers of his type do. Nothing that happened had anything to do with his reprehensible actions. Then you have these mindless dumbass celebrities fighting for his life, most of them gangsta want to bes like Puke Dogg. Thank you Arnold for remembering the real victims here and standing up for truth and what is right. This coward pos does not deserve any more thought or consideration. He may think he has fooled everyone but the ultimate judge waits. I hope God has mercy on us all.

[MOMO]

IT IS NOT IN OUR HANDS NOW. IT IS UP TO WHOEVER IS IN CHARGE NOW. BUT MAY GOD BLESS HIM, AND HE DOES FORGIVE THOSE WHO SIN. NOW FOR THE RATAS THAT GOT IMMUNITY, NOW THEY ARE SOME SCANDALOUS SHIT, WHO KNOWS WHETHER THEY ARE TELLING THE TRUTH IN ORDER TO COVER UP THEIR MESS, BUT SHIT U GET IT IN THE END. EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP SAYING "HE SHOULD GET RID OF HIS GANG NAME" "TOOKIE" IS HIS RIGHTFUL MIDDLE NAME AND IT JUST SO HAPPENED TO CATCH ON AS AN ALIAS, BUT REMEMBER IT IS RIGHTFULLY HIS MIDDLE NAME AND THE NAME "TOOKIE" WILL LIVE ON AND IF HE DIES, THERE IS GOING TO BE HAVOC AND MAYHEM. BUT I AM NOT THE ONE TO BRAG BUT IT IS A FACT THAT HE IS REDEEMED AND I SAY LET HIM GET "FATTER" IN PRISON AN EYE FOR AN EYE IS BULLSHIT!!!! ONE LOVE

[orinoco]

The probability that "Jeremy" is a student at W&M is zero.

[robert]

Just about all of you people make me sick!!! especially the person who wrote that he blames his conviction on the race card. (posted by a waste of time on dec 12) what in the hell did you just do?? you said he did it like "all of the unemployed lazy losers of his type do" what in the hell is that supposed to mean? HIS TYPE? i hope god has mercy on your ass. i have been following william's life for a number of years and he is remourseful. question to all: were any of you there in 1979 when he was in the 7-11 or in the hotel? were any of you in the jury that heard the case? is one of you the actual judge? if you answered "no" to all of these questions SHUT THE FU*K UP CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOUR TALKING ABOUT! to kick a man in his ass when he is already down is just wrong. the way these posts are it seems like you are all saints and have done nothing wrong in your lives. and yea i will play the race card in some of your faces. THIS IS WHITE AMERICA AND I'M A BLACK MAN. IF IT WERE A SKIN HEAD, NOT ONLY WOULD HE HAVE BEEN GRANTED CLEMENCY BUT I BELIEVE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LET GO. KILL CHARLS MANSON IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO. THAT RIGHT THERE IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE. WHITE MAN LIVES, BLACK MAN DIES AND BOTH HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. I HOPE THAT NONE OF YOU EVER DO ANYTHING YOU NEED FORGIVENESS FOR. GOD MAY FORGIVE YOU BUT I SURE AS HELL WONT!!

[ROBERT]

ONE MORE THING, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT ANY OF YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT MY COMMENT. MY E-MAIL ADDRESS IS NORTHJERSEY247@YAHOO.COM.GET AT ME!!

[monique mcneil]

i just want to say that when subjects like this come up you find out how much about this country is still the same. alot of you out there are just plain racist. i have also done some research about williams and i will not say whether i beleive he did what he was accused of or not because i dont know. however i will say that using this situation as a way to express your own racist views is disgusting. he was given his fate because of his race regardless of the crime or whether some of you want to beleive it or not. also if his motives were not with good intentions as far as the books he wrote and the other antigang activities he participated in why then did he not just admite to killing those people to save his life. in other words if i was on death row and someone told me that if i just addmitted to what i did and say sorry my life would be spared and i wanted to live why not just admitt and say sorry. thats all people gov swartsinager wanted and he would have likely gave him clemency. it seems to me that a selfserving person would do anything nessassary to same him or her self.one more thing manson and williams acted in the same capacity and the followers of mansan for all of you death penalty advocates were not placed on death row and they killed famous people one of whom was pregnant. also please don compare williams with hitler because hitler if he were alive today would seek all of your who are not pure and kill you the way he killed the jews, polish and anyone else who was not of pure blood in his eyes.

[baldilocks]

Charles Manson and the other four defendants received the death penalty in 1971. In 1972, the death penalty was abolished in CA giving clemency to all condemned CA prisoners at that time; it was reinstated in 1977, but those who received clemency from the old law retained it. Please try to read the comments and the links provided before making yourself look foolish, Monique. And consider yourself fortunate; you could have had a post dedicated to you like Jeremy did.

[paofamily]

There is a valid way to punish those who take innocent lives. For every person lost, we are all diminished. What ever the reason, he became a gangster, social or economincal etc. He killed people intentionally for financial gain and notoriety. It may be everyone's fault he took this path. Whatever his color, the needle doesn't discriminate.He should have started writing earlier and put the gun down. Only a punk needs a shotgun against unarmed people and tookie was one.

[snowwhite]

Whatever, Snow-snorter??.

Um- No "neo con baldilocks" that's the crap you Austrian nazi and Australian right wing euro spanish Mafia scum sell all over in l.a. Must we expose and name the so- called high class Corrupt bars & clubs you sell it in and that your child of a terror nazi war criminal friend (Arnold The barbarian)who covers up for it knows about...don't worry baldilocks it the likes of you who will be singled out in the days of the final conflict know it..

And you wont be saying whatever when your nazi regime comes crashing down on you more worse than 911 my
Nazi terror foe!

The second american civil war is coming thanks to the likes of your Corruption, greed and injustice! Know it!

[baldilocks]

Snowperson: I'm not Austrian or Australian, and if you were the type to look at the 'About' page of a blogger before you made your comical assertions, you'd know that.

Keep posting your meaningless diatribes and threats here, however. They're instructive. I'm not afraid to die because I know what awaits.

Are you and do you?

When I woke up on Monday, I was opposed to the death penalty. It's not that I think there are a lot of wrongly condemned men out there; virtually everyone on death row did it. Virtually all of them deserve to die. The question is: Should we kill them?

I've gone back and forth on this for years. Ultimately I've decided there's something creepy about the government killing its own citizens, except in self-defense. I know there's something terrifying about the euphemisms designed to present executions as medical procedures. "Lethal injection" sounds like something you get after an ultrasound and an MRI. The syringes, lab coats and gurneys add to that impression, as of course they're designed to. I'd be far more comfortable with an unmistakably violent method, like public beheading. At least with the guillotine, there's no pretending.

That was my position at 8:30 a.m. Then I spent the day reading about Stanley "Tookie" Williams and his celebrity defenders. I'm still opposed to the death penalty on principle. But I'm almost as opposed to the people who defend Tookie Williams.

How many of them, I wonder, have any real idea why Williams is on death row? Most know he was convicted of murdering four people. But do they know his victims' names? Do they know anything about Albert Owens, the night manager of a 7-11 who was 26-years-old when Williams forced him to kneel to the ground before shooting him twice in the back with a 12-gauge shotgun? Owens left behind two daughters. Has Snoop Dog held a fundraiser for them?

Does Bianca Jagger, a committed anti-racist if there ever was one, know that Williams later told a friend that he killed Owens "because he was white?" Has she heard how Williams boasted about the killing to his own brother, bragging, "you should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him," before laughing hysterically as he mimicked the dying man's struggles for breath?

And what about the other victims, the three Taiwanese immigrants who Williams murdered in their motel? Does Susan Sarandon even know their names? Yen-I Yang, 76, his wife, Tsai-Shai Yang, 63, and their daughter, Yee-Chen Lin, 43, were shot at point blank range. Yee-Chen Lin had the left side of her face blown completely away, yet somehow lived for a couple of hours in agony. I saw the crime scene photos tonight. I'd love to put them on the air, but they're too gruesome. Williams later bragged about "blowing away" the family, whom he described as "Buddhaheads."

These are not accusations. They're facts, proved at a trial that presented truly overwhelming evidence (including damning statements by accomplices, relatives and passersby) of Tookie Williams' guilt. Yet Williams himself has never admitted what he did, instead blaming his convictions a racist plot. Are Tookie's celebrity defenders bothered by the fact he's still lying about his case, and has never apologized for murdering four people? You'd never know it from listening to them.

Instead, they talk endlessly about Tookie the "author," as if Williams wrote his own books (instead of relying on a "collaborator" on the outside), and as if it mattered anyway. It doesn't. There is no evidence that a single thing Williams has "written" has convinced a single kid not to join a street gang. Tookie Williams hasn't made America better. He took four lives and destroyed many others. Plus he's a duplicitous phony. If anyone ever deserved to be executed, it's Tookie Williams.

And yet, there's something that bothers me about his execution. No man, not even Williams, should know the exact date of his own death. And everybody ought to be nervous when the government methodically snuffs out the lives of its citizens. That's the problem with the death penalty is: It can make you feel sorry even for people like Tookie Williams.

[Rob]

Those for clemency take various onsensical routes to their conclusions. Throwing the race card in the mix is as usual laughable. I particularly liked this statement. "THIS IS WHITE AMERICA AND I'M A BLACK MAN. IF IT WERE A SKIN HEAD, NOT ONLY WOULD HE HAVE BEEN GRANTED CLEMENCY BUT I BELIEVE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN LET GO"
That's classic. Pure garbage.

The post from "Brad" of William and Mary brought me to this blog. I am a junior at the College of W&M, and if he is indeed one of my fellow students here, I am ashamed of whoever let him in. His "prose" flows like a telegram from a drunk stoner.

[monique]

dont call me foolish because you have nothing meaningful to say in response to my comment. i already know about the temporary halt of the death penalty in that time however if so called scum like williams deserve the death penalty then that includes the manson crew. also, you need to do your research on manson, he had a record so long its surprising he was not put under the jail but once again hes "white" if he were a black man he would have been put under the jail for the crap he did prior to having those people murdered mabe then they would still be alive. a evil person like him should not have been given clemency. you know really it does not matter to me the execution of williams due to the fact that God is the judge of all of us those who beleive and those who do not and if he was found quilty in Gods eyes he will suffer hell and if not he's in Gods glory. physical death only kills the body not the spirit. oh and for the person who said i was fortunate not to have done to me what was done to jeremy, you can do anything to me "hello this is a blog" idiot. one more thing there is alot of thugs and they dont just come from the black community. white folks been thugging for centuries(pilgrams,klansman and countless other white folk)stealing,rapping,killing and such
hey research that "american" legacy, meaning our legacy and maybe you'll realize that the apple don't fall far from the tree!

[sandy]

[shaddup]

[sandy]

[Look here, little girl: know who you're talking to before you post; and take some writing classes before you post here again. Right now, I don't feel like slapping down yet another brat who thinks that he/she knows everything, as I did here with Jeremy. Count yourself fortunate.

Now run along and play in some sandbox somewhere and hope that one of Tookie's homeboys doesn't shoot you or that one of his children doesn't molest you.]

[sandy]

u people wont understand me anyways and u people dont even have a heart..no one deserve to die or be judge by u people..

[teal marie]

sandy, sandy, sandy, I don't call 4 murders a "mistake". Otherwise, yes, I do understand you. You feel entitled to judge "u people" and the feeling is mutual.

It is very instructive to note the writing skills of Tookie's fans.

[torchy]

Yeah, I guess Sandy thinks 25 yrs of Tookies life makes up for the 200+ yrs he snatched from the lives of 4 people. I doubt Tookie went throught as much moral equivocation before he pulled the trigger. Me thinks they protest too much. I don't recall Tookie shedding any tears of depair before the state snatched the life out of him. Guess his life meant as little to him as the 4 innocent lives he destroyed.

[Houck]

It is a good thing tookie was put to death. it sends a message that you just can't be a career criminal,gang banger and murder people and get away with it.

[baldilocks]

Thanks to all who have agreed and disagreed--however effectively--but I think that these comments need to be closed.