Questioning Patriotism

You may have noticed the front page picture on this site.* Back in 2000, that picture was the subject of much consternation, controversy and what not. (My first viewing of this photo was at Cobb’s site a few weeks back.) Some of it I understand.

In the past I have lamented on the improper display of the flag. As a former military member, I am mindful of how the flag should be treated and often have had to bite my tongue when I see flags flying that are in disrepair or see them flying at night or while it’s raining.

However, a little perspective is a handy thing to have and I have re-thought my position. While many civilians aren’t aware of the flag protocol and often violate it, they are usually doing so to show their love and respect and pride for the things that this country stands for. In such cases, a little gentle correction is warranted, rather than going ballistic.

For that reason, when I saw photo the 2000 Olympic Track and Field 4x100 meter relay team hamming it up while displaying their pride for their accomplishment and for the nation they were in Sydney to represent, I was inclined to be rather forgiving of their improper display of the flag as I was to rocker Kid Rock’s donning of a flag poncho during his performance at this year’s Super Bowl.

Apparently, however, from the response that S-Train received from posting the 2000 Olympic photo and expressing his opinion regarding same, some aren’t quite as forgiving.

Allow me to add bit more perspective. Remember this photo?

It’s from the Mexico City Olympics of 1968. Recall that the Civil Rights Movement was in full swing then.

Did Tommie Smith and John Carlos and the rest of black America have a legitimate beef with their country? Most definitely. However, the purpose of this post is not to debate whether showing their disrespect toward the flag and the National Anthem was appropriate in this venue.

As most of you who read this blog know, I’m not one to call racism lightly or dredge up the racial sins of America at every turn. But, in light of the various indignities—to use a perfectly insufficient description—that were visited upon black Americans for centuries (and still occasionally are), it’s a wonder that any black Americans still love this country, are proud of it, and are willingly to represent it, celebrate it and defend it.

The great thing about our country is its general capacity for change in the face of unworkable conditions. And it has changed. So, in recognition of that fact, the Tommie Smiths and the John Carloses of this world have, in a generation, become the Maurice Greenes, the Jon Drummonds, the Bernard Williamses and the Brian Lewises of the 2000 photo.

To those who criticized S-Train for the photo, you need to recognize that or, at the very least, get over the fact that the gentlemen in the photo—winners all—are just as American and just as proud of it as you are. And, if you really want to be helpful to such young men, congratulate them on their achievement(s), tell them how the flag is properly displayed and advise them to "chill" during the national anthem and explain the reasoning behind it.

Their patriotism, however, is unassailable.

*My site picture is often changed. Go here to view the picture in question, if it isn't on the front page.

Comments

[BeckyJ]

I agree. I've never viewed celebrations like the 2000 photo as unpatriotic; rather it is a celebration of their love for their country and their pride at winning their event. And Tommie Smith and John Carlos participated in the Olympics as representatives of the US despite the issues of the day.

[teal marie]

I like that picture. They are embracing the flag with gusto! Those are Our Champions and they look wonderful to me.
That said, I treat my own flag quite properly. Trained in Girl Scouts. And you'll never see me winning at the Olympics, anyway. Well... maybe if they make claw stropping on the straw-man an event...

[DarkStar]

They are sprinters.

Sprinters have that cocky edge. You have to have it.

[Deb]

I agree. During the Super Bowl last year, I asked my son about the SuperBowl halftime show - he threw a party for his friends on base (they brought pizza and beer, he supplied the TV) and their take on Kid Rock was that anything he does is all right with them. While they were in Iraq last year, Kid Rock did a USO tour, entertaining troops on a number of different bases. When he got to the Baghdad Airport, he wasn't scheduled to play but when the troops he was signing autographs for started cheering, he grabbed instruments that belonged to a military band and did an impromptu concert in 130 degree heat. He also give $5,000 to the family of each military person killed over there. He's a hero to these guys. And my son's everlasting regret is that Kid Rock didn't make it to their base. Maybe some other time.

Now, if the Dixie Chicks had wrapped themselves in a flag, different story. ;-)

[torchy]

You can be the fastest human on earth but if you live in a country that excludes you because of your tribe, religion or race you won't be any closer to a gold medal than you or I. The USOC recognized and supported the talents of the John Carlos and Maurice Greens of this country and a modicum of humilty to that fact would be appreciated. When the US flag and anthem become a piece of apparel, a secondary component of that partnership between athlete and state sponsor then there's a reason to complain.
I think you misrepresented the controversy over this photo at S-Train by ignoring the militant bullshit captioned to it by Cobb and S-Train, for example, Cobb writes:

"When you see this picture, you need to shut up and salute."
" He who wins the gold makes the rules. So this is what it looks like. And if you can't respect that, then it's civil war. "
"In my right hand is a pen. In my other hand is a CRKT M16-13Z. You don't want to know what it's like when a man like me doesn't have a country."

S-Train continues:
"How dare you punk ass muthas criticize the way they expressed themselves? How dare some of (say) you were embarrassed by them? HOW FUCKING DARE YOU ACT LIKE THEY WEREN'T AMERICANS? "

he then answers his own questions:

"Fuck you and your jacked up ways of thinking. This is the land of the free. Free to express yourself."

Couldn't have said it better.

[baldilocks]

Humility is fine, but it's extra. Since when has it been a rampant quality in athletes--professional or otherwise? (One Babe Ruth used to point to his "spot." One Clay/Ali once proclaimed himself as the "Greatest.")

Though I wouldn't express my sentiments the way C and S did, I understood their anger and, knowing where they are coming from a bit, I took the bravado to be metaphorical as well as the anger talking.

The response to the photo made me angry as well. Sometimes it seems as though black people can't win in the opinions of some, regardless of whether we're on their side or not. That's why I posted the Smith-Carlos photo.

It also seems as though some--not referring to you here--forget that this is just as much the black man's country as it is that of all other races. For more perspective on that, see the ESPN commentary by Jason Whitlock, linked in the next post.

[baldilocks]

Deb:

I think Kid got schooled a bit on flag and National Anthem etiquette.

During the NBA finals this year, I happpened to look up and see some long-haired guy singing a reasonably sonorous rendition of the National Anthem in Detroit's stadium. I didn't recognize him until the end of the song, when he put his hat back on: it was Kid Rock.

What I'm betting is that those in the thirty age group and younger didn't/don't get taught respect for the flag, like us old folks did.

[torchy]

Juliete- Babe Ruth and Ali weren't priveleged with representing their countries when they produced those antics.
The USOC and IOC have rules governing athletes behavior on and off the field, though I'm not certain how they apply to this kind of situation, I'd think they'd require a high degree of respect for the traditions of the games and the gravity of what they represent, not as a stage for either private showmanship or personal politics. I'll go read the Whitlock piece but I think the Olympic venue is completely different from what we see in professional sports, where showmanship is part of the biz.

[S-Train]

Damn right it was militant, torchy and hardly BS. We black folks are full-blooded Americans. And those before me sweated, bled, and died for this country. So to see four black men castigated because of the way they celebrated their love of this country is too much. They were called un-American. Race was brought in (like we black folks are somehow a detriment to America). They were equated damn near to criminals. And you wonder why Cobb and I are militant about this issue? Ya damn skippy!

As Juliette says, this is a black man's country too.

I fly the American flag in my front yard with an AUF (African Unification Front) flag below it. The Stars & Stripes is the bigger and more prominent flag for obvious reasons. So don't tell me about being militant. This is MY COUNTRY and I REPRESENT it well, hoss. And so did those four black men in Sydney.

[Sharps Shooter]

S-Train: nail-head-hit. (Some assembly required)

Concur yr analysis. I was at a meeting of a religious community, when the lady next to me introduced herself and, a few moments later, answered my run-of-the-mill polite question with, "I'm a prostitute. What do YOU do?" I smiled, after the tiniest of hiccups, and shared with her that I work as a doctor, healer to bodies and minds.

She dug it, and allowed as how I was responding better than most of the folks in the living room.

I told her that they want to be loving and accepting, but they're white, middle-class Americans who've almost NEVER had a chance to meet people like her.

They're just uncomfortable with the (Sydney) expression, and they're uncomfortable with their own self-conscious embarrassment.

Blacks ARE Americans. And so are Democrats and Vietnamese and homos and the elderly. Some of us just don't get to meet us, and it shows at times like this. :) We're learning, and we'll continue growing, as Americans!

[Casey Tompkins]

Never saw the photo before, or heard of the "controversy," but I haven't watched TV in years.

I think that shot is hysterical; it's one of the most exuberant expressions of joy I've ever seen. And -frankly- any snooty "Euro" or other Merkan-basher who thinks that sort of thing is "tacky" or "vulgar" can go piss up a rope.

[DaveP.]

Were they proud of their country and of their citizenship? Looks like a 'Yes' to me. So where's the desecration? Where's the insult?
Gotta tell you, folks. When I looked at that picture, before I even read the post, I wasn't thinking "Look at those black guys with the flag!" My first thought was, "American atheletes won a gold medal? WOW!" I had to be clued in that it was from the 2000 Olympics, but the point still stands. To me, the most important thing was NOT the skin color of those proud young men... it was that they were AMERICAN, my countrymen. I don't expect humility from Americans; we have too much to be proud of. If that diminishes me in the eyes of anyone who posts here... too damn bad.

[torchy]

S-Train- It might of helped your argument if you linked to instances of criticism that questioned the patriotism of these "4" African Americans. You did suggest that this criticism somehow applied to all African Americans, as though they are part of a monlithic group, seperate yet equal. That's racism and you made it a race issue, my man. There are thousands of African American servicemen and women fighting and dying around the world and at home in defense of this country. No one can questions their patriotism. These 4 sprinters competed and won my adhering to the rules. They can't pick and choose which rules don't apply anymore when they cross the finish line or step to the podium, doing things THEIR WAY as you and Cobb suggested. I'm not defending every criticism levelled against them but I'd lay down my life to defend their right to express them. Flagrant posing and chit-chatting during the national anthem don't cut it for me. Maybe you could start at home, redirect you causus belli inward, and argue with the NFL (with their large contingent of African Americans)about their ruling against excessive celebration.

[S-Train]

Unfortunately, blogs weren't as prevelent in 2000 as they are today or this would have been a extra-hot item.

Look, I made African-Americans monolithic in my post because the criticism, at the time, grouped all black folks together. It was terrible and got free reign in the media during that time. Every two-bit sportswriter and columnist made the issue the ace #1 story. Sprinter Maurice Greene was shocked and said sorry so much it was downright sickening (heck, he was put in the position of defending all black folks in America).

The time for that type of criticism is over. The across-the-board criticism of black people over the actions of a few (even though it wasn't bad to me) MUST and WILL end by any means necessary. Black folks serve in the military, work, raise families, etc. Yeah we have our problems but who doesn't. We'll all in the same gang. And the Athens 2004 Olympics proved it by the boos that rained on ALL AMERICAN athletes.

[P6]

Juliette:

Thank you for this post. I've been distracted and just caught it. There's nothing I could add.

Torchy:

Rather than shifting totally off target, can I ask if you have a problem with the picture and if so what that problem is? And I know already you have a problem with what S-Train and Cobb wrote. Would you say directly what the problem is with each? I'm asking because your respond so intensely it's obviously striking a particular nerve and I really don't understand why it would.

[P6]

Torchy:

The other reason I asked:

They can't pick and choose which rules don't apply anymore when they cross the finish line or step to the podium, doing things THEIR WAY as you and Cobb suggested.

The can be responded to by asking at what point do they stop being governed by the rules of track and field. When they make a donation at church do they sprint to the basket? When they go shopping do they try to beat their best time?

When the race is over, its over. They become men. These men, at the peak of their own pride, were identifying with this country. And you're rejecting that, over ritual. I need to understand that, no joke.

[baldilocks]

Thanks for the stimulating conversation, folks.

Torchy: While I agree that these men, who were bound to the USOC and IOC rules, deserved some condemnation for violating their rules, that isn't totally the issue here.

Did these men go overboard in celebration of their victory? Yes.

However, are these men unpatriotic for going overboard in celebration of their victory and using the flag to do so? No.

It's the love of country that should have allowed some slack to be cut; not by the USOC, but on the homefront.

As I said at S-train's place, I think the problem with this team--as is likely with Kid Rock--is that they were never taught how to treat the flag and how to show respect during the National Anthem. I don't think that those under a certain age are taught that in public schools anymore. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) If kids don't get that at home, there's no place to get it now, unless one is looking for it.

From their comments, the members of the 2000 relay team are *very* proud of being American and were *very* proud of winning the medal for their country.

But no one taught them how to properly show it.

P6: Thank you!

[gcotharn]

I'm defending some of those who did not like the celebration. I didn't see the celebration, but I did see several highlights of it four years ago. On the highlights I saw, the television announcers were invariably criticizing the demeanor of the athletes.

I make no comments about the flag. I think civilians, including these guys, generally are trying to show patriotism around a flag, and mean no disrespect.

When I saw the highlights of these guys, I thought they were trying to draw attention to themselves. I thought they were saying "Look at me! Look how cool I/we are!" I thought their display lacked graciousness and class.

Many times, I've seen white and black people attribute some white people's attitudes to racism, when the real problem is different principles and values. Many people are openly contemptuous of persons who have different principles and values from themselves. Its easy to interpret that open contempt as racism, when actual racism may or may not be involved.

I think there is some of that going on with the 2000 Relay Team. Many people ascribe to the humble Lou Gehrig/Joe DiMaggio model for the victor, and they are disgusted by celebratory displays. Sometimes there's racist feeling involved, and sometimes there's not. Many times its a culture thing.

[gcotharn]

[post edited]

This is what bothers me about athlete celebrations-- They show no regard or respect for one's honorable opponent.

Shannon French is an instructor at the Naval Academy. She wrote a book called "Code of the Warrior," which was published last year. In it, she points out that there is no honor in defeating or being defeated by an opponent you do not respect.

I've coached youth sports for some years. I teach my players that our opponents are worthy and honorable. There is no dishonor or shame in being defeated by such opponents. I've never discussed this with my young players, but I do think it is shameful to taunt and flaunt. It is not honorable behavior. It is not classy behavior. If your opponent is your buddy and you're goofing with him- that's one thing. But the Olympics is another.

If anyone can explain the appeal of taunting and flaunting, I'm all ears. I don't want to stifle my player's fun. But, for now, I do not allow such behavior. As far as I can see, it goes against everything that we should be teaching young athletes.

I commend Baldilocks for this excellent blog. I appreciate having a forum to discuss such things.

[gcotharn]

Re this comment--
"Sprinters have that cocky edge. You have to have it."

I rebut with these two words- "Jesse Owens"

[P6]

gcotharn:

I think you're coaching your kids the way you must.

But I think you need to look at the inevitable mob scene at home plate when the World Series is finally decided.

I'm looking a human beings to see how well the ritual fits us rather than looking at the ritual to see how humans measure up to it. And I find it perfectly normal for someone who just achieved a difficult, long held goal in a way the world must acknowledge to exult a bit.

[gcotharn]

P6- I appreciate your response. It raises another question, which is important in its own way-- Is it possible to exult without dishonoring one's opponent? Is there a way to exult genuinely and naturally, without added affectation? I can't imagine very many people objecting to genuine joy and excitement. Such things tend to bring tears to my eyes. Its the affectations and the posing which offend, for I interpret them as taunting and flaunting, as disrespectful and dishonorable and classless.

Sometimes I do think the young athletes sometimes trying to find the best way to show their joy? I think Gatlin did this after winning the 100 meters this year. He struck a couple of brief poses, but I did not interpret them as taunting or flaunting. I thought Gatlin was trying to express his joyfullness in the best way he knew how in that adrenaline-filled moment. To my eyes, some other displays do not seem as genuine or as spontaneous.

[P6]

Is it possible to exult without dishonoring one's opponent? Is there a way to exult genuinely and naturally, without added affectation?

I honestly believe it depends on how dearly you hold the goal. The more important it is to you, the less likely any thought outside "I did it!" will find its way into your head.

As for our seriously patriotic track stars, those who doubt because of the flag display are ranking ritual over passion and I believe that to be an error in this case. And for everyone else it's a matter of taste.

[Samantha]

This may seem a bit trivial but I'd take Kid Rock in a flag poncho and the track team cavorting with the flag over some chick in a stars and stripes string bikini ANY day (I've seen it and really wish I hadn't).

[Peter]

I wore Uncle's suit from 1964-70. It was my first experience with complete integration, or as complete as it was, then.
Coming from a Union (not trade union, the Civil War Union), Republican and white family in the old Confederacy, I was steeped in the unfairness of 'the way things are' but powerless to change things, I was somewhat amazed at the deep patriotism of the men who were not even allowed to vote, much less the indignities of seperate bathrooms and all those other insults.
I was privileged to serve with some of the finest men I've ever been around, men of all colors. And a few revolving sumbitches, too. Also of all colors. The black men I served with were proud of those athletes in Mexico City, as was I. As that year, 1964, was the first time I'd ever been in the position to have other races as equals, I was curious about those clenched-fist salutes. The opinions of my black comrades were as varied as those of my white comrades. The disagreements were seldom about their message, oh there were a few racists, not very many in the totally interdependent world of a Marine Rifle Platoon, but a few. The disagreement was in how to best present that message.
We've come a long way since 1964. I don't know how much I moved things forward but at least I didn't, and don't, push backwards.
The almost totally unique, and beautiful, thing about the United States of America is that when S-Train and some other guy are arguing, it's an argument not about whether we all deserve the same justice and respect but how to achieve it.
We aren't all the way there yet. I don't know when we'll get there. All I know is that patriots come in all colors, plumbing, too. Oh, I know something else, too. There are a helluva lot fewer people pushing backwards than there were when I was a boy.
Do I give a rat's ass how S-Train expresses his patriotism? I do not, I thank God that he does. I thank God that young black men from the segregated south went off to war in the 1940s,came home and, helped by their sons that went off to another war, demanded justice. I'm just as thankful that most white people demanded the same thing. And proud.
And, you know what? If I ever win the Gold at the Old Fart's Olympics I'm going to grab that Flag and shuffle around that stadium just awheezin' and asmilin'! I won't be wearing it but I'll damned sure be holding it high.

[Mike O]

I'm an old white guy(about 6 decades). I read this blog because our host is conservative and a Christian.
The young men in Mexico City were making a political statement at a time when many in this country were making the same statement. It was a statement, long overdue, that had to be made and much good has come from it.
Those who complain about Kid Rock or these fine young athletes(I saw more than just these sprinters with flags draped around them)remind me of Christian legalists. It must be done in a certain way or it's not right.
God on the other hand looks at the heart.
ME TOO.
When I saw Kid Rock with his flag poncho, he looked to me as if he was proud to be wearing it, and the same was true of every athlete I saw with a flag wrapped around themselves. They wore it with pride.
In my adulthood, I have seen the flag treated with disrespect many times, but in these instances, I see just the opposite.

[Keith]

I don't understand this quote-unquote controversy at all. I watched a good bit of the Olympics and white athletes draped themselves in the flag just as much as black athletes did. It also wasn't just Americans that did it--in fact it wasn't just gold medalists that did it. It appears to be an emerging tradition among any happy medal winner to show pride in their achievement and give props to their country--or say thankyou to the fans in the crowd from their country.

Not everything is a black-white thing people. Nowhere is this more true than at the Olympics, when you see athlete after athlete of all races and backgrounds, all with lifetimes of sacrifice and work achieve their moment of glory and tear up when the Star-Spangled Banner gets played in a foreign land.

[baldilocks]

Peter,

I didn't see your post until today. Thank you. That type of wonderful comment is one of the reasons that I blog.